reciever vs. seperates - Page 3 - Technology Forum - Home Theater, Computer, Televisions, Personal Electronics and more!

Semona · 08-01-2006, 07:19 AM

In all actuality we should all wait for the receivers and processors that will decode the high resolution audio formats such as Dolby HD and DTS HD. I am not certain, but I don't think that these options are available yet on audio equipment other than the onboard decoders of the Blu Ray and HD-DVD players have.

ITRocks · 08-01-2006, 07:19 AM

it's all going to come down to $ w/components you buy either now or later. how much are you willing to part with?

imho, anything under $1500-2000 is an AV Receiver, but $2,000+ you can start to get serious about choosing separates. $1,000 for amp and $1,000 for processor sounds reasonable as a starting point. optimally, i'd have to $3,000 so you can allocate more/less $ to either the amp(s) or processor as you wish.

and if you can wait, you should. that receiver you have isn't half bad. i don't think you'll die if you keep that on hand until HDMI 1.3 AVR AND Processors finally come out.

Cyborg · 08-01-2006, 07:19 AM

have you ever listened to those B&W notolus speakers in your avitar. If so, how good do they sound and what is a rough price estimate? And I can wait on getting the stuff, It'll still be a little while at least. Can someone explain HDMI to me please. And so it's the processors that need upgrades, not the amps? Meaning I could buy that MPS-1 amp and not have to upgrade it for many years still right, just wait on the processor?

TechBoy · 08-01-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyborg

have you ever listened to those B&W notolus speakers in your avitar. If so, how good do they sound and what is a rough price estimate? And I can wait on getting the stuff, It'll still be a little while at least. Can someone explain HDMI to me please. And so it's the processors that need upgrades, not the amps? Meaning I could buy that MPS-1 amp and not have to upgrade it for many years still right, just wait on the processor?

HDMI is an all digital interface that has a high enough capacity to carry 1080p video and a high resolution audio track simultaneously. Version 1.3 interface of HDMI is the only one that can do 1080p. The version is based upon the equipment the cable is connected to not the cable itself. Currently, at least to my knowledge, there isn't a receiver or processor available that can decode the new high resolution formats; DTS HD, DD plus, DD HD, and MLP lossless pcm.

Also the amplifier more than likely won't need upgraded untill you buy more demanding speakers or if you simply don't like the amplifier. You can buy processors that are ready for the future that have firmware upgrades and modular designs. So if HDMI 1.3 becomes available on home audio products as well as the newer surround formats, then the processor can be upgraded with new firmware which are generally free and maybe a new HDMI 1.3 module. In effect many processors are the now and future and could actually save you money! Keep in mind not all processors have this ability but here are some that do: B&K reference 50 and some of it's predecessors, Sherwood Newcastle 965, Outlaw 990 and 970 (firmware only from what I figure), Rotel RSP-1098.

Semona · 08-01-2006, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyborg

have you ever listened to those B&W notolus speakers in your avitar. If so, how good do they sound and what is a rough price estimate? And I can wait on getting the stuff, It'll still be a little while at least. Can someone explain HDMI to me please. And so it's the processors that need upgrades, not the amps? Meaning I could buy that MPS-1 amp and not have to upgrade it for many years still right, just wait on the processor?

The B&W Model Nautilus is a special market speaker that's produced in very limited quantities and I've never been to store that actually displays them. I did get to hear a pair at a convention, hooked up to eight (that's right, EIGHT) Classe CA-M400 mono blocks. Simply phenomenal...

Those speakers are $40,000/pair MSRP and they are 4-way active with external crossovers (super tweeter, tweeter, mid, and bass, meaning you need 4 separate 2-channel amps (or 8 mono blocks) to properly run them. If you were to run those off of Classe CA-M400's for example, you'd be looking at $80,000 total, not including the preamp and sources. Pretty outrageous...

But, this was a pivotal speaker for B&W's engineering, because much of its technology has been trickled down over the years to far less expensive models.

ITRocks · 08-01-2006, 07:20 AM

ya, I found those speakers when exploring the B&W website. At first I thought the were nice looking bookshelf speakers ment to act more as display at a oober fancy home, I was like "ah, how cute. Then I looked at the specks

Cyborg · 08-01-2006, 07:20 AM

as many here can answer:

1. HDMI specifies the standard of HDMI only. they don't spec. HDCP, they don't REQUIRE manufacturers to include any of the features they listed (except the basic hardware termination connectors). an example would be 1080p that is already spec'd in version 1.0 but not a lot of mfr's of HDTV's, AVR's made equipment to support it because there is little (only PC downloads of 1080p caps) 1080p content (back then).

2. that means that in order for you to "experience" 1080p bliss, you need the HDTV to be able to accept 1080p over DVI/HDMI on the spec, you need the source player to be outputting 1080p on the spec, and finally you need the source material ITSELF to be 1080p mastered.

3. the mfr's can decide whether or not to include 1080p or NOT. i'm not in the market for a 1080p display so i'm really out of touch with what's available, but i think there are a few HDTV's that can accept 1080p over HDMI. some of the westinghouse digitals do (37w3 and 42w2? 47?). some of the newly announced AVR's like the Denon's CI lines now switch 1080p in and out. and as you may or may not know the RCA/Samsung BluRay models and Toshiba's HD-DVD doesn't really output 1080p over HDMI. it'll be next year before that happens? but one thing is really cool is some of the HD-DVDs are 1080p mastered.

4. thus, you can already
a. purchase a few (not many compared to component input) HDTV's that can accept 1080p currently. others can provide you more info about that.
b. purchase 1080p SOURCE material on mediums such as HD-DVD or DVDROMs like T2: Extreme Edition and BluRay (but i'd wait for VC-1 1080p, imho).

by late 2007, i expect to be able to have a few choices in:
a. both AVR's and separates that switch 1080p HDMI as well as accept 1.3 so it can decode Dolby TrueHD, DD+, DTS-HD Master and hopefully SACD and DVD-Audio MLP on top of the regular DD-EX, DTS-ES6.1 discrete, etc.
b. both HD-DVD and BluRay players that use HDMI 1.3 to output Dolby TrueHD, DD+, DTS-HD Master and hopefully SACD and DVD-Audio MLP on top of the regular DD-EX, DTS-ES6.1 discrete, etc. and of course true 1080p.
c. both HD-DVD and BluRay ROMS that i can install into HTPC's to playback HD-DVD and BluRay or possibly a universal ROM =). just need a reader now, burner will come later.

5. what processor are you referring to? hopefully, what i've outlined above answers your questions.

Semona · 08-01-2006, 07:20 AM

i have, but i don't own it =). it's nice avatar for aesthetic reasons only. perhaps i should change it to the DM303, since that's what i own, entry-level (trickle down) el cheapo. when i listen to it, i don't stay long because i don't want to tempt myself into remortgaging my entire life just for a pair of speakers =). i also think that beyond a certain price point, you'll get less bang for the buck. however, like the barenaked ladies song, if i had a million dollars... i wouldn't preclude myself from owning a pair... or two. but the pictures don't do it justice, they are HUGE! you'll have to buy a multimillion dollar home first to house these monsters. they're each about the size of a Danny Devito. my local spearit audio (com ave) demos a pair... though how one transports such a beast out of that store is an interesting question.

re: HDMI, check this out:
http://hdmi.org/about/faq.asp
^most of what you need2know about HDMI.

well, if you're gonna get into separates. i'd advise you to get good amps, clean power for your home first, and then concentrate on what features you want from the processor. since we're in transition from HDMI 1.x to 1.3, i'd buy an el cheapo (if there is such a thing) processor like the 5.1 rotels that does basic DD and DTS and then wait for HDMI 1.3 processors to come out in 2007 or 2008.

TechBoy · 08-01-2006, 07:21 AM

I'm sorry, I meant preamp, not processor (been looking at getting a laptop lately, mix up). When you say "1080p over HDMI" do you mean there is another way to output 1080P? And if the new players don't output 1080p yet, what are they doing video wise that a dvd ain't.
And theoretically, when the new bluray and HD players come out, you would be able to plug them diretly into an amp using the multi channel output and directly to the tv using (correct me if I'm wrong) an HDMI output? And you would still be able to play cd's on them in 2.1 as well? So what purpose other than 5.1 to 7.1 switching and music channel replication (sorry I don't know the tech term, but like 2.1 to 5.1 i.e. prologic or neo6) would a preamp serve? So if I only wanted 5.1 movies and 2.1 music, why would I even need a preamp? And thanks for the help and sorry for the excessive questions

Desiree · 08-09-2006, 01:17 PM

I cant wait until they upgraded the technology to a point when the internal processing for a reciver is similar to a computers so that it can convert anything to sound high quality.